Leadership Values for a Better Tomorrow
With Tabatha Bull
The indigenous economy is an essential part of the market in any sector. They support the community and bring insightful teachings and practices into business. Unfortunately, indigenous businesses often face many financial and social barriers. These can hold them back from growing and thriving as a business. It's a systemic problem we have to overcome with better leadership values[1] .
What can you do to support these indigenous businesses and thrive with them? In this episode, Tabatha Bull shares how any business — small or large — can help the Indigenous community. She also talks about what you can learn from them and the leadership values and principles you can bring into your work.
If you want to discover the leadership values Tabatha Bull espouses to combat systemic problems, listen in on this conversation.
kw: leadership values
meta: Your leadership values will reflect in the effects your company makes. So let's choose values that make tomorrow better.
Here are three reasons why you should listen to this episode:
Discover the difficulties indigenous peoples face.
Find out the critical leadership values we need to address today’s injustices.
Learn the seven grandfather teachings and how to take them into your business.
Resources
● Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business
● Jenn Harper and Cheekbone Beauty
● Connect with Tabatha: LinkedIn | CCAB
● Connect with Angela: Angela Wallace Impact Agency | Scale Conscious
About Tabatha
Tabatha Bull is the president and CEO of the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. She is committed to supporting the indigenous economy with her team at CCAB. By removing systemic barriers and advocating for diversity, Tabatha aims to improve opportunities for indigenous businesses.
Tabatha is Anishinaabe, a proud member of the Nipissing First Nation. She is also an electrical engineer committed to supporting indigenous communities, especially in the energy sector. Tabatha wants to realize the potential for growth in the indigenous community and strengthen the path toward reconciliation.
Episode Highlights
[01:24] About the Canadian Council For Aboriginal Business (CCAB)
● The CCAB is a nonprofit membership association founded by Canadian business leaders. This year, they're celebrating their 40th anniversary.
● Murray Koffler witnessed the experiences of indigenous people. He met with indigenous and non-indigenous leaders to discuss what they could do.
● Until today, their mission is to support indigenous businesses and ensure that their economy can prosper again.
● Their members include both indigenous and non-indigenous businesses from various sectors. Their programs are about making connections between.
● Their oldest program is the Progressive Aboriginal Relations. It's a certification program that examines an organization and how it works with the indigenous community.
[06:16] Tabatha’s Leadership Values
● Tabatha joined CCAB in September 2018 and became the CEO in March 2020, just before the pandemic.
● Initially, her biggest concern was ensuring that her people were supported and safe throughout these struggles of the pandemic.
● As an engineer, Tabatha has a process-oriented type of leadership. She is also a heart-centered leader who tries to find ways to support her team.
● She’s had so many opportunities to go to different places and talk about the importance of the indigenous economy. It is a big responsibility that Tabatha faces.
Tabatha: “I really do find that responsibility a bit overwhelming. If I'm the one here representing and I'm the one who has this voice, then it's important that I say certain things, it's important that I don't say certain things. It's so important the way that you say them.”
● All of these opportunities that they've received are thanks to her team. She ensures they know they are a part of making their mission happen.
[12:51] The Importance of Businesses to Join CCAB
● As individuals, business owners, parents, and more, everyone has a role to play and the opportunity to do so.
Tabatha: “We all have an opportunity, not just a role to play, but an opportunity to really make a difference.”
● Procurement is one of CCAB’s programs that has become a major priority.
● Indigenous businesses are in various sectors. Other companies can support the economy by purchasing what they need from them.
● It’s especially important for small and medium businesses to do so. This can allow indigenous businesses to get in and get the experience they need to grow.
● One of the biggest barriers is their access to financial and social capital. Many of their businesses need connections that can help them grow, scale, or even start.
[16:12] Potent Leadership Values: The Seven Grandfather Teachings
● Before coming to CCAB, Tabatha worked in the energy sector. At that time, she reflected on the seven grandfather's teachings and felt that her work went against her values.
● For her, much is rooted in honesty. Tabatha tried to come from a place of honesty to build trust and humility.
● CCAB now has a circular organizational chart. Their mission is at the circle's center, followed by the CEO's office. Each department has an equal slice of pie in the circle.
● A hierarchical chart only connects at the top level. Meanwhile, a circular structure ensures that everyone is connected and equally important.
Tabatha: “Some of the indigenous teachings that we have are ways of being and knowing… But it's about bringing that into the work that we're doing “
● Tabatha tries to bring these principles into the organization. She wants to show that the whole team is working towards the same goal and is playing an important role.
[20:18] Supporting the Team
● As a nonprofit, CCAB works with people with high emotional intelligence. They're passionate about their work, and things tend to hit harder.
● They want to work hard for the mission and pursue opportunities even when exhausted.
● Supporting and protecting them, even from themselves, is crucial because they might burn themselves out.
Tabatha: “We have to remember that we're only as strong as the people that are working with us. And if they're feeling overwhelmed, then we need to find ways to support them.”
[23:58] Holding On to Hope
● Sometimes, you may feel disheartened and feel there's not enough movement. It takes a lot of patience, but much progress has been made in the past years.
● Throughout their struggles, indigenous businesses continue to show up and show their resiliency.
● There are many opportunities, and several people support the work the CCAB is doing.
● There are more and more conversations about indigenous businesses and the opportunities and benefits of working with them.
● People need to spread the word and keep these conversations going.
[27:21] Words of Wisdom from Tabatha
● Remember to be gentle with yourself and with each other on the journey. Let your leadership values reflect that.
● Everybody has their own pace. Find the route that can be easier for your heart and mind.
Tabatha: “There are opportunities that you can do to support the journey of reconciliation and support indigenous business, people, or communities that maybe are a little easier on your emotional brain are on your heart. We just need to find that route that's going to bring us there.”
Ange Wallace: Hey there. Welcome to Scale Conscious. I'm your host, Ange Wallace. In my second podcast series, I'm inviting visionary leaders to give us guidance on how we can create conscious companies and build a regenerative future for all. In this episode, I'm joined by Tabatha Bull, CEO of the Canadian Council of Aboriginal Business.
Tabatha is an anishinaabekwe from Nipissing First Nation. As CCAB’s President and CEO. She's committed to help rebuild the path toward reconciliation and create a prosperous indigenous economy that benefits all Canadians. An electrical engineer, Tabatha informs Canada's energy sector policies and programs. She's appointed to a Catalyst CEO advisory board. She collaborates with some of the world's most powerful CEOs and leading companies to help build workplaces that support women. I'm excited to speak to Tabatha about the importance of indigenous leadership and the possibilities of inclusive prosperity. Let's get started.
Well, Tabatha, I'm so excited for you to join us here on Scale Conscious. It's really remarkable. I'm excited for everyone to hear and share your story and your leadership. To get us started, I really wanted to dive in and have you describe the history and the vision of the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business. I'm sure some listeners might not have heard of your organization, might not be familiar with it. So to get started, what is the focus and impact of your organization?
Tabatha Bull: Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to speak with you. CCAB, Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business is actually approaching our 40th anniversary. We are a not-for-profit membership association and we were founded by Canadian business leaders who were really looking to see what they could do to support indigenous business. The story goes that Murray Koffler, who was the founder of Shoppers Drug Mart, but also involved in hotel development was out west and he was looking at a new potential property in this abandoned building, and there was an indigenous family in this abandoned building.
And then not long after that, he went into one of the Shoppers Drug Mart stores, and there was an indigenous man being wrongly accused of theft. He came back to Ontario and it kind of feels like it's folklore now but had this meeting on the hill, which is where his farm was, and he gathered indigenous and non-indigenous leaders and they discussed how they could help support.
Our mandate is still the same. It's about supporting the indigenous economy and indigenous businesses by bringing together really indigenous and non-indigenous people and corporations and government as well. Of course our programs have changed a little bit over 40 years, but our mission is still the same, and that's really to ensure that indigenous economy can get back to a point of prosperity like we were hundreds of years ago.
Ange: Tell me a little bit about the programs. Give us an overview of how you engage with your members.
Tabatha: Sure. Our membership is both indigenous and non-indigenous business. We have about 65% indigenous business and the rest are non and our membership is from all the major banks to resource extraction companies, oil and gas. Now into tech with members like Google and Meta coming on board and indigenous businesses across every sector as well.
This means,from a small business to some much larger businesses, indigenous owned businesses in construction, and a lot of our programs are really about just making those connections. We do a lot of research and all of our programs are informed by the research that we do on the indigenous economy.
You know, really looking at gender distinction across First Nation, Metis and Inuit businesses as well. From that research we've found a number of programs that are in need. Our oldest program is called Progressive Aboriginal Relations. It’s just over 20 years old and it's a certification program that looks at your organization to see how you're working with indigenous business and indigenous people. It was kind of like a B Corp certification, except it's assessing based on your indigenous relations, how are you supporting indigenous business development, indigenous employment within your organization, your community relations, and then who's going above and beyond in their role on supporting indigenous economy and indigenous communities.
We have over 200 corporations in that program right now. About 43 are certified and then the rest are going through the process, which you have up to three years to go set your intentions, look across your organization at where you can really make an impact, and then start to put those in place. Then we have independent indigenous verifiers and jurors that assess the company. That's really important that it's independent of us because these are also our members and they do support our events, so we wanna make sure we have that independence in that program.
Ange: I like that little, little separation.
Tabatha: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Ange: Yeah, that's really remarkable the offerings that you've developed over the years as CCAB. I think one of the profound things is that it really calls companies in to take action and how to work through the learning and the unlearning through structured certification that will really empower those teams to take action not only to raise their awareness, but actually make some changes in their companies.
I love the piece of history around Shoppers Drug Mart. I work with Shoppers Drug Mart in my business activities now with brands, and their buying team, their categor7 teams to bring products on shelf and store. I love all of that history and I think it's really a powerful thing to reflect on where you come from, but also where you're going.
Which leads me to the amazing achievement last year, the Ontario Chamber of Commerce named you CEO of the year. Congratulations.
Tabatha: Thank you.
Ange: Amazing. And that's really remarkable from everything I've seen and heard. A really well deserved achievement,
Tabatha: Thank you.
Ange: Share with us the vision of your leadership. What it means to you to be leading in this moment. We find ourselves in, especially with the organization that you're with
Tabatha: Yeah, thanks. I joined CCAB as the COO in September of 2018, and then took on the role as CEO, March, 2020. The actual day, that we last day, we were fully all in the office. We told the team that I would be the incoming CEO.
Ange: Timing.
Tabatha: Definitely a different first 90 days of leadership than I expected.
Ange: No kidding.
Tabatha: Look at that initially, and initially my biggest concern was just how do I keep all of these people that work for me employed and supporting their families and, and feeling safe? So many struggled at different times with the uncertainty with working from home, with the isolation.
That definitely was a big responsibility that I really felt so important in the role, but then also as a business association supporting businesses and indigenous economy. It really struck home how important associations like ours are during that period of time. We kind of moved a little bit in some of the work that we did and where our priorities were.
The Progressive Appalachians Program relations program that I spoke about, a lot of that is about communities and corporations working with communities and of course during COVID really to protect communities. We allowed for those organizations to take a bit of a break there because communities were closed and we were so concerned about our elders.
But then on the advocacy piece, a lot of the programs that were rolled out. For businesses and small businesses, indigenous businesses couldn't apply to, for various reasons. Taxation, where their location is, whether they had a CRA number, how they're structured. We really did a lot more work in the lobby space, which we hadn't done before.
I really enjoyed that work actually. It was really gratifying to see results and to see that the work that we were doing was really helping. And two, just to ensure that we were, you know, keeping our membership during that period of time, in such uncertainty, membership fee to an organization is sometimes at the bottom of your budget. Really ensuring that we were able to do that.
I think also I'm an engineer as my background, so I'm very process oriented and very like, how are we moving through this? I think that type of leadership at that time was important. It was kind of a perfect storm, but really trying to find ways I'm a heart forward, heart-centered leader. Really trying to find ways to support the team to know that they could take a break from their computer, if they needed to log off early, if they were feeling zoned out or overwhelmed, but also really being honest and transparent about how I was feeling also.
There were times where I would send a note to the whole team and say, this is hard, and if you're feeling that this is hard, that's okay. I'm also feeling vulnerable in this time. Those things were really important to me. Then looking at how our organization continues to grow, we were a little shy of 30 people then and we're around 50 now but we have another eight FTEs in our budget for this year.
So growing quite a bit and our membership as well. We were about 900 members in early 2020, and we're over 2000 today. It’s been incredible the opportunities that I've had, like the rooms that I've been able to be in, and the place that I am able to bring my voice. The importance of indigenous economy is really not lost on me.
Sometimes the responsibility of that is a bit overwhelming actually.
Ange: Daunting?
Tabatha: Yes. I just actually returned from Mexico City. I was there as part of a Canadian delegation with the North American Leaders Summit. We were three delegations from Mexico, the US and Canada. I had the opportunity to really speak about the importance of having indigenous voices in those conversations and at those tables, particularly when indigenous people were in all of those countries before they were US, Mexico, and Canada.
You know, I really do find that responsibility a bit, sometimes overwhelming. Sometimes if I'm the one here representing and I'm the one who has this voice, it's important that I say certain things. It's important that I don't say certain things. It's so, so important the way that you say them.
Ange: Yes.
Tabatha: Yeah. You know,sometimes these rooms feel surreal, but be did have a, an opportunity to meet with Prime Minister Trudeau, and then the next day I was invited to lunch with at the Mexican Palace with the Mexican President's wife and First Lady Biden and Madame Sophie Kruger Trudeau, which is really one of these moments…
Ange: The ultimate ladies’ lunch.
Tabatha: Yeah. Really. Surreal experience. I think for my team too, you know, I'm in Mexico City, all of that, all of those opportunities and opportunities to be in those rooms is only because of the team that I have supporting me and continuing to support me. Also very important to me that I try to ensure that they feel like they're part of that.
Send a note saying ”this is what I'm doing this week. This is like where we are.” It's important that they don't feel they're back in the office, they're back at home, and I'm having all of these opportunities, but that they realize that they're really part of what all of us are doing.
Ange: Yes, absolutely. Well, I just love listening to those stories, especially attending that summit and those interactions with world leaders. Not only our leader in Canada, but in other nations as well. The evolution of leadership for the organization. I think it is good and right and true that an indigenous woman leads this organization with you, kind of taking that story forward, and I think that's a really powerful, powerful thing and an important thing and I was so happy to hear about your membership growth. I will confess to all listeners, I am one of those 2000 members that are there now.
Tabatha: Thank you.
Ange: I decided to make my small business — I’m on the small, small side of small business, as many listeners know — to become a non-indigenous SME member, that's small-medium enterprise member of CCAB. And a lot of listeners here, I work with a lot of founders, a lot of entrepreneurs. They may not be a Meta size or a Google size, but I think it's really important to reflect on in your experience why is it so important for businesses, of all backgrounds, all sizes, different industries to join an organization like CCAB and participate in these programs, and this work?
Tabatha: Yeah, definitely. Well, I think one is that we all have a role to play on this path. reconciliation, and I use that word, gingerly. Sometimes I feel like it's overused actually feels a bit fragile to say that word sometimes. But we all have an opportunity, not just a role to play, but an opportunity to really make a difference.
Us as individuals, that's us as business owners. Maybe that's us as parents to speak to our kids and support our youth. One program that we've taken up in the last probably 10 years, but has really become a major priority is procurement from indigenous business and supporting indigenous business through purchasing every business, no matter what size you are, has an opportunity to be able to do that, to look at where can I continue to support the economy through, maybe it's purchasing the graphic design of my website or the coffee that I have in my office. As individuals it's like lipstick that we wear.
There's indigenous businesses in every sector and it doesn't matter the size of your company and it's actually as important and sometimes, more important initially for small and medium businesses to do this because it's easier, and I'm sure you're well aware of this, but it's easier for that small indigenous business to get in and to start to get experience before they go to work at, or try to get on the supply chain list of some of these large multinational companies.
Yeah. Just to get that experience and, and make those connections is so important that we talk so often about the biggest barrier for indigenous business, and I know a lot of small, but particularly indigenous businesses, is access to capitaI. I firmly believe that's not just financial capital, that's our social capital as well, and some of us live in these circles where we have connections and an easier opportunity to say, “Hey, I wanna start a business. Can you help me?” Maybe you know, we know somebody in a space, but that's a privileged space that we sit in and a lot of indigenous businesses don't have that.
That’s definitely the work that we're trying to do as CCAB, but I think anybody and any business owner can help support that also.
Ange: Yes. I love that idea of expanding the network, sharing the space. Who else can join you on the journey? There's room for all of us. I really believe that and I love that idea of we all have a role to play even as small business owners.
In fact, our commitment in aggregate would make a huge difference and impact. We're small but mighty together.
Tabatha: Yeah, definitely.
Ange: I have to confess, I'm pretty happy to hear you name lipstick because I did wanna find a way to sneak Jenn Harper of Cheekbone Beauty into this interview.
Tabatha: Yes. Always, always time.
Ange: Everytime. I know Jen, I, I’m in the product business space. I'm in the CPG space and we've had the joy of crossing paths in multiple ways. We were on a panel once, pitching our beauty brands to the Czech Republic of all places.
Tabatha: Oh, wow.
Ange: I’ve really had the joy of knowing Jen a little bit. I love, she brings the wisdom of seven grandfather teachings to her company and I wanted to hear you speak a bit about these principles of love, truth, honesty, respect, courage, wisdom, and humility. I did write them down. I couldn't remember them all off the top of my head, and I just wish more company founders and leaders in our community broadly behave from these principles, and it just feels like it's ancient wisdom, but it's so relevant today. Just what we need. What would you say on the seven grandfather's teachings?
Tabatha: Yeah, definitely. You know, I definitely try to, I mean, Jen is an incredible indigenous woman and leader and example. Before we move on, I just have to say she's someone that I met early on as well, um, when I came to CCAB.
And the growth that she's had has been incredible, but also her humility I find very refreshing. I try to lead with those in mind as well. Before I came to CCAB, I worked for an electricity system operator in the energy sector. In the last five years there, I worked with communities supporting indigenous communities on energy projects, renewable energy projects across the province of Ontario.
I loved that work, but the more I worked with them and the more that I was really trying to continue to move and make change for those communities. I often reflected on the seven grandfather teachings, and it's not something that you're thinking about in every decision that you make, and started to feel more and more that I was working in a space that was working against my own values.
I'm very privileged to be able to lead an organization that I can set those values and set that by example. To me, honesty is the most — not one's not more important than the other, but to me, I think so much of it is rooted in honesty that's really why I try to be a very honest with my team and, and honest with our members and really come from that place of honesty so that I can build trust.
Also humility to say, sometimes to say this is hard you know, we'll get through this together, but I'm tired and I know you're tired.
Ange: Yeah.
Tabatha: And also from a place of, we're all working towards the same thing. The other thing that we've recently done is changed our org chart.
The org chart that we have at CCAB is now a circular org chart instead of this hierarchical org chart that everyone uses. At the center of the circle is our mission and our vision. Then the first circle is my office. Then every department has like a pie in the circle and every piece of the pie is the same size. So it doesn't matter how many people you have on your team. Your pie is the same size and I find that in hierarchical org charts, you really like visually can see that this person or department has more people and visually that just makes you feel that that work. Someone must think that work is more important than my work because I have less people, but also hierarchical org chart departments are only really connected at the very top level. There's no connection between everybody. So that that circular org chart ensures that everyone is connected throughout the organization. You can't just take off one section, right. Then it falls together.
Ange: You can't chop off a department.
Tabatha: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And we're all on one page too. You know, sometimes you get to those larger org charts and.
Ange: You're scrolling and scrolling. Yeah.
Tabatha: Exactly. It’s those ways of us thinking differently about an organization. Some of the indigenous teachings that we have or, or ways of being and, and knowing, and I say this as someone who's still on a journey of learning as well, but it's about bringing that into the work that we're doing. Bringing the seven grandfather teachings into the work we're doing, bringing the like idea of a circle and you know, moving to that circle really came from a place of, when I came into the CEO position and people that were in higher positions in other organizations only really wanted to meet with me.
And I kept saying, well, I'm not the real person who is like working on this particular item day to day is my VP or whatever. Really you need to meet with them. But there' things, I'm like, “Well, I'm in this position so I need to only meet with the CEO.”
I'm really trying to get rid of that. We don't operate that way. We're all working to the same thing and the people that work for me are really experts in their field more so than I am.
Ange: Oh, that's amazing. I love that. Because you've talked about how much good growth you've had, but it's about bringing a balance to that as well. A balance of roles and responsibilities, and I'm a bit of a nerd around organizational design, so I really love this idea of a circular org chart. I'm into it. I'm gonna dive in on that for sure. Oh, I love that. I love the idea of love is in those seven teachings. You know, it's not something we often associate with business too much.
The idea of love and English is a bit of an anemic language for concepts of love. We don't have many words for love, but I think it is an interesting thing to imagine if we, you know, we love our communities, we love the planet, we love the people we work with, we love our team. There is something beautiful in that.
Tabatha: Yeah, for sure. I think too, especially in the last, you know, two years that we've, everyone's gone through and as I said at the beginning struggled with all of the various challenges. I also really find a not-for-profit. You attract people that are very high emotional intelligence people. Things hit harder for people that are high E.I. Also you have people that work for you that are so passionate about the work that you're doing, that they will continue to work.
Like they will work late and if there's an opportunity that comes forward that's gonna help the mission of the organization or you know, we've found the mission of supporting indigenous business, they'll take that on no matter how tired they are. You really need to protect them from that. Like almost, protect them from themselves sometimes and that's hard too because you're, you're wanting to see the organization grow. You're wanting to find these opportunities for the members.
But, we have to remember that we're only as strong as the people that are working with us. If they’re feeling overwhelmed. Then we need to find ways to support them and to maybe reprioritize and, and say no. I say this as if my, if my EA were to listen to this, she would laugh because she constantly tells me I need to work on saying no more often.
Ange: We're practicing what we say.
Tabatha: That's right. Yeah, exactly. So, I'm working on that. But I do, that really struck me when I first came too. The organization is just that really, and I'm a very high EI person also, so to be surrounded by all of this emotional intelligence and real empathetic people. It's what we really need, to guard against that burnout for sure.
Ange: Yes. Well, and I love this idea around resilience. That's really one of the things you're, you're hitting on there, this idea of growing resilience because there are so many challenges facing our communities. Pandemic and if we wanted to imagine the future of, of reconciliation, I know the word you say is, is so fragile, but this idea around a fair, a just, a prosperous, a sustainable future.
How do you imagine the possibilities? Because i, it's gonna be a little bit of work ahead of us. I know, it's not around the corner. We've got some decades ahead of us. Hopefully we'll make progress. But in the face of so many of those complexities, of those problems, how do you hold on to hope and imagine the possibilities?
Tabatha: I think it's a lot about patience. I already feel that we're so much further ahead than we were a year ago or two years ago as a country. Definitely there's times where we feel like there's not enough movement. Like why don't we still have clean water in all of our communities and why don't we still have high speed internet in all of our communities?
These definitely are commitments that have been made and we're still waiting for change, but we're making progress in other ways. I think too specifically when I think about CCAB, when I think about indigenous businesses growing so fast, and you know, to your point about the resilience of businesses and indigenous people who have continued to show up and continue to show their resilience without those basic needs, it's incredibly inspiring.
It's easy to get disappointed or frustrated for sure but we can't keep doing the work that we're doing unless we think of the art of the possible and the potential opportunity that's out there. If we really think about the wins and don't read the comments in media news.
Ange: Yeah. Stay off the comment sections.
Tabatha: That's right. Definitely stay out of the comments sections. But you really have to think about the wins and I think about things like people that are coming forward wanting to work with us, that are, what can we do? How can we support the work that you're doing?
And those opportunities that are now coming to us, which is really incredible. I think about also the opportunities that people are talking about it more so the number of media requests that we get, the number of like times that we've been able to get into national newspapers and newscasts and BNN, these are conversations that weren't there before in media.
The more that we continue to make sure that the word is out there about indigenous business, about opportunities and the benefit as well. In addition to the seven grandfather teachings, we also think about seven generations ahead. As a country continuing to look and as organizations are talking about ESG and climate transition, these are all things that happen in our values since time immemorial.
If you look at indigenous businesses, they are built around those values, around sustainability, around social conscious and giving back to their communities. It's almost like everyone else is just kind of caught up to that.
Ange: Trying to catch up. We're trying to catch up
Tabatha: Yeah. Yeah. There's like, there's a definite benefit to working with indigenous business and I, people are really starting to see that. Even in large projects across the country, having that indigenous partner, equity partner or partner within your project brings so much certainty to that project and people are really starting to wake up to that as well.
So we just need to keep that voice going and keep that conversation and keep at the top of a news cycle as well.
Ange: Yes, absolutely. Stay at the forefront of people's hearts and minds.
Tabatha: Exactly. Absolutely. Yeah.
Ange: Well, I wish I could talk to you forever and ever, because this has been a great, great conversation. But I know that we're gonna need to wrap up shortly. I always hold a space for my guest at the end of each episode just to give a final moment. To reflect on one last wisdom, one last nugget that you'd want to, if there was one other thing that you could leave our listeners with, what would you want them to carry with them?
Tabatha: I think that it's kind of a place where I'm feeling now and I think that's just about being gentle with yourself on the journey. Some things in the news cycle have been hard, particularly of late with more children graves being confirmed and everybody has to go with their own pace on this journey.
It's hard to, really dive right in and, and absorb all of that at the same time, there are opportunities that you can do to support the journey of reconciliation and support indigenous business or people or communities that maybe are a little easier on your emotional brain or on your heart, and I think we just need to find that root that's going to bring us there and to be gentle with each other as we go through the process.
Ange: Yeah, I think that's really a great place to end because some of some of that is quite heavy to bear and to learn. I hope we turn towards each other rather than away from each other because of it, and be kind to ourselves. Yeah. I love that.
Tabatha: Yeah, me too.
Ange: Tabatha, thank you so much for all that you're doing.
Tabatha: Well thank you.
Ange: The people that are working with you, your whole entire team, I pass my thanks to them as well and I'm so proud to be partnered with your organization. I hope to continue to grow in my own small way within that partnership. I just hope that all who are listening will carry this back into their lives, into their businesses, into their families, and each one of us can have that role to play and find a way to work towards that great future. Thank you.
Tabatha: Well, thank you. Thanks so much.
Ange: Thanks for listening to Scale Conscious, I'm Ange, this show is produced by Lead Podcasting. Special thanks to Angela Wallace Impact Agency team. Discover more about our work with cpgstartups@scaleconscious.com. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player.
Enjoyed this Episode?
If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends!
Thanks for tuning in! For more updates, visit our Website. You can also listen to more amazing episodes on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.