Better Future: No Role is Too Small in Sustainability Efforts
With Solitaire Townsend
Solitaire Townsend is the Co-Founder and Chief Solutionist at Futerra, a change agency. The team focuses on making “the Anthropocene awesome.” Through campaigns, training, and strategy, Futerra helps companies get closer to their sustainable goals. The agency operates under the ethos of “logic and magic,” merging elements like data and creativity to work towards a more sustainable, just, and regenerative future.
In Episode 5 of Scale Conscious, Solitaire Townsend joins us to discuss why we should dream big and set goals that are “bonkers” when it comes to sustainability. We also chat about the importance of everyday people in the sustainability movement, and why even so-called small actions make a big difference.
Plug into this episode if…
You have been doom-scrolling and want some positive thinking tied to sustainability.
You want to play a part in the climate movement but aren’t sure where you fit in.
You want to understand how long-term and short-term goals factor into efforts for sustainability, for both companies and individuals.
Resources
Episode highlights
Why imagining a better world is a difficult necessity
Coverage about the climate crisis is so dire that it can often be difficult to imagine a better future — but doing so is necessary if we ever want to enact change.
Sometimes you have to set goals that are completely “bonkers” in order to get to a more sustainable and equitable world.
There’s no downside to imagining a better world — it’s all about dreaming big, then backing those dreams up with challenging stretch goals that set you into action.
Everyday people can make a difference
You don’t have to be a celebrity or well-known activist to take steps towards a more sustainable life and world. You just need to constantly ask yourself, of every decision you make: “Is this decision serving the solutions or serving destruction?”
If people can’t envision themselves as activists or changemakers in their own communities, they won’t take actions to make a difference — and we need everyone on board. This is why everyday representation in the climate movement is so important.
There are no small roles in the larger movement towards sustainability and equity.
How any company can set itself up for positive change
It can seem like taking action on sustainability requires book-long guides and huge commitments. All it actually requires is making the right choice decision after decision after decision.
Solitaire recommends setting radical goals for 2030 — seven years away — and then setting hard targets in a 6- to 18-month cycle that help you get there.
It’s important for businesses to set goals that they don’t yet know how to achieve, since the rest of the world is doing the same. Trust that new solutions will emerge as you work towards your “bonkers” goals, and that if they don’t, you’ll find new ways to achieve them.
Angela Wallace: Hey there, welcome to Scale Conscious. I'm your host Ange Wallace. In my first podcast series, I'm rounding up some of the innovations startups can take to create conscious companies and build a regenerative future. In this episode, I'm joined by Solitare Townsend, co-founder of Futerra, a change agency devoted to combining the magic of creative and the logic of strategy to make sustainability happen for a better world. At Futerra, they believe to change the world, first, you must imagine a better one. I'm excited to speak to Solitaire about her campaign called "Everyday Climate Hero," celebrating the climate hero in all of us, and her newly minted title, Chief Solutionist. Let's get started.
Well, Solitaire it's so nice to be with you. Thank you so much for taking time to join my first podcast series. I'm really excited to be speaking with you.
Solitaire Townsend: Angela, it's an absolute pleasure. And Solitaire is a beautiful but quite long name. So please call me Soli.
Angela Wallace: Absolutely, Soli. And also, Ange, you can just go with Ange. That's great. And I know you're speaking to me from London, UK, which is really fantastic. That's where your headquarters is based. Talk to me a little bit about your change agency Futerra. I know you've recently renamed your title Chief Solutionist. So give us a little bit of what that's all about.
Solitaire Townsend: So Futerra is 21 years old. And I've had the pleasure of co-founder of Futerra for decades now. And of course, that's a description of something which I did on one day, decades ago, versus of course what I do every day, is trying to find the solutions. That's what Futerra's in service of. We are a change agency in service of the solutions.
And when people ask me what solutions to watch and what is a change agency? Number one question is: we are trying to fix the Anthropocene. That's what Futerra exists to do. So the Anthropocene is the geological name that's been proposed for the time that we're in right now, as I'm sure you know, that human beings are having such an impact on the very rock, the very stuff, that makes up our planet. That for centuries — millennia even — to come, you will always know that we were here, those of us who were living here, from the [unclear], petrol to nuclear fallout and carbon to the metals that we use, there will always be a sort of layer in the geological record that says humans were here.
Now, for many people, the very fact of that and what the Anthropocene means at the moment, it's a negative thing. So it means climate change, it means pollution, it means ecological loss. And for many others, it means those humans of the human age acting with inequality and racism and exclusion, all of which are both the social injustice and the environmental disruption, are unquestionably true. You only have to look at your social media feed or count the carbon to note that's the case. However, it is true now, but it is not inevitable. So what Futerra exists to do is to say, change is inevitable — and we get to choose in which direction that change goes. That change can either go to apocalypse, or it can go to awesome.
Angela Wallace: Right.
Solitaire Townsend: And at Futerra, our mission is to make the Anthropocene awesome. So we work on logic and magic. So on logic, we do a lot of helping big organizations and governments but particularly companies set their big strategies and their targets and help Formula One go net zero, we help Google go circular. And then we also do the magic. So we help doing the storytelling and the human truths and the marketing. So you know, in that case, we do a lot of work with folks like Sierra Club and WWF on some of those really big campaigns, such as Never West and Ocean Hero.
Angela Wallace: Amazing. Well, I'm all for signing up for an Anthropocene of Awesome, and I hope everyone listening, that will resonate for them as well. I love that idea of packaging together the pragmatism and the realism of the moment we're in. You know, this is where we are with that optimism. Like, let's move towards something beautiful and wonderful and even fulfilling.
Solitaire Townsend: If we're not shooting for that, if that's not what we're expecting, we absolutely should be raising our expectations. The current situation isn't good enough. And you know, humanity has always had at least one eye on progress. And so that's what, you know, we probably need both eyes on it right now.
Angela Wallace: Right? Yes, exactly. Shift our entire gaze to progress. I love that. And on this note of sort of optimism and progress, I've loved your book, reading your book, "The Happy Hero" — I've got a copy right beside me on my desk here — "How to Change Your Life by Changing the World." And, you know, you wrote that in what we could call the pre-pandemic world and now we've globally been through this sort of shared experience that was so challenging, and really tested us in so many ways. Tell me a little bit about how there's this continued relevance of the heart of the message in that book, as we look to, you know, "build back better'" — so many people use that phrase, I don't want to say post-pandemic world because I know we're still in it in so many ways. But as we look to move into this next, you know, chapter and stretch forward, tell me a little bit about how "Happy Hero" still resonates?
Solitaire Townsend: Well, thankfully, wonderfully, I've had a lot of people contact me who actually read the book during the pandemic and now, as we're in this phase of it, because so many of the messages in "The Happy Hero" actually have been proven very true for people over the last few years. "Happy Hero" is that you can change the world by changing your life. And by trying to change the world, you will change your life.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: So it's this very, very simple piece, which is, do good things for other people, and do good things for the planet. Really throw yourself at becoming a changemaker. And there is this huge side effect of all of that purpose and passion and helpfulness, which is: You will be a happier, healthier person having done so. Because so many of us experienced this during the pandemic, which is, the more we tried to do, the more care we tried to take, the more we tried to help others around us, and in so many communities, we found people coming together, we found people re-connecting to their neighbors, we found people supporting their essential workers, really holding voice for health and space for our health care workers.
That actually, it didn't just make us happier, it actually became a survival tactic. How to find ways to help became not just a nice-to-have but an essential for so many people as they survived through the pandemic. And so this wonderful serendipity that doing good is good for you, which is absolutely the heart of "The Happy Hero." In "The Happy Hero" we unpick that a bit, we take a look at the scientific evidence for it, we talk to some people from sort of some nuns, to some Bangladeshi immigrants, to some children, to some CEOs, to hear their stories of the change that they've made, and that by doing good things, good things come to you. We've got the evidence in that from everything from neuroscience to economic policy.
Angela Wallace: Yes, and I love that there's that sort of foundational now of support of saying, "This isn't just idealism. You know, in a way, this is very realism as well," of doing good is good for you and for your community. And like so many people in the pandemic, I definitely had, you know, stretches of time where as you call it in the book, "monsters of denial and doom" and that's associated to the climate kind of movement. But I think in the pandemic, we all kind of felt those sensations as well. But what I love is towards the end of the book, you have your chapter "A Good Life," and you start imagining a better world. What does good health and good jobs and good stuff really look like? Can you talk a little bit about how that vision plays into your role as a thought leader in the space?
Solitaire Townsend: As Chief Solutionist folded and funding and with that job title to be able to articulate what that looks like. And in fact, as you and I speak on this podcast, so by the time folks are listening to it, there will actually be a very clearly articulated vision of this on the Futerra website, on wearefuterra.com. Because what we've done is we've taken a look at the 17 Sustainable Development Goals. Many people know or have at least heard of the Sustainable Development Goals.
Angela Wallace: Yes,
Solitaire Townsend: This to-do list for humanity by 2030. It's very good, and every single one of those 17 is trying to fix a problem, trying to fix the problem of gender inequality, of biodiversity loss, of climate change, of city pollution, of income inequality, every single one of those 17 each. And poverty, you know, number one is no poverty, the first SDG. Each one confronting one of these great sort of intractable, you know, decades-, millennia-, century-old challenges for humanity. And so what Futerra has done is we've taken each of those and thought, "Well, imagine that the SDG was actually achieved, or the 160-odd targets were achieved. What would humanity be shooting for next?" And so we've set out a picture of what we're calling the Awesome Anthropocene Goals.
So for each one of the 17 SDGs, we've now set what would "good" look like. So for example, in life on land, actually, what good would look like is half the world wild.
Angela Wallace: Right.
Solitaire Townsend: If 50% of our landmass was actually put over to re-wilding and that's something which scientists are proposing, which actually has got policy reality. Every single one of these Awesome Anthropocene Goals is based on you know, there's real signals and evidence bases and proposals that those things could actually be the case.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: What if everybody had a universal decent income, rather than a universal basic income. The Universally Basic Income basically takes people to just marginally above the poverty line. A decent income would allow for things such as child care, personal development, even leisure. So for each one of the SDGs, we've set out this picture. And when you put that picture all together, it sort of comes up with a very simple vision, which is 10 billion more — every human being on the planet — all 10 billion free, healthy, educated humans thriving in a recovering environment.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: And that's what we're shooting for. And I can't tell you how hard it is to say that out loud, like, 10 billion happy, healthy, educated humans in a recovering environment. And it's extraordinary how difficult it is...
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: ...to even say that out loud. Because we're so used to verbalizing the opposite, the apocalypse, that we realize that we are — even those of us who are passionate changemakers — are uncomfortable with or un-used to verbalizing the positive.
Angela Wallace: Well, and what I love about it the most, because that just fully gives me the shivers. And like, yes, like I'm here kind of pumping my fist behind the microphone. What I love is it, just like you said... decent income, it goes beyond surviving into thriving, you know, it goes beyond just doing less bad into achieving greater good. And I think there's an inspirational kind of motivation that can spark in people that — galvanizing us to really go beyond just eliminating the bad and really bringing in a much better, more equal world. And I think so many people listening, if I can imagine them behind their headphones, will also be nodding along and excited by this idea. I hope so, anyways.
Solitaire Townsend: Um, one of the things in the AAGs, in the Awesome Anthropocene Goals, though, so what you'll notice is that each one of the goals — so food as a source of joy, etc., ultra structures everywhere... you can go onto the AAGS and find out what an ultra structure is — and each one, we've got a little box, which says, "How hard was this to imagine?" Because of course, it can almost feel like a betrayal of common suffering to allow yourself to imagine beyond it. It can feel deeply uncomfortable to put yourself in that post problem mindset when those problems are so visceral, continuous, the lived experience for so many of our fellow human beings, the lived experience for so many of the people who were even authors of AAGs. And so we really do need to acknowledge the fact that there's almost some psychological blocks to allowing ourselves to imagine the good. Just remember: Worrying isn't acting. Feeling guilty isn't doing. Doom scrolling doesn't help anyone.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: There's no real negative to allowing yourself to imagine a better future, as long as you then get up and try to do something about it. Very clearly, for each of the Awesome Anthropocene goals, we also go into the actions that you can take, the commitments that you can make, further reading, etc. Because if we're going to give ourselves permission to think about what the world could be, we then also need to persuade ourselves and others to do something about it.
Angela Wallace: Yes, absolutely. And you're right, acknowledging the challenge, in some ways, it can help take the sting out of it for people to join in. Because if it can feel like we're covering over, this will be difficult, and it might not be easy, but it'll definitely be worth it, then people might feel maybe that there's like a, it's been easier for them to make that stretch in their imagination. There's no denial, it's more just moving past it into the imagination, which I love.
On that note with this imagining and the doing, moving from just thinking about it into acting on it, you know, a lot of the clients I work with are startups and businesses that are kind of emerging. A lot of them want to commit to ideas like climate takeback during this decade as we do reach to those SDGs or the the AAGS, as you call them, to 2030. And I know you have a lot of experience over many years with many different companies of all sizes and industries. So I'm curious to hear from you, within this next sort of less than a decade we have now, what are some of those pitfalls or key things that leaders and startups should avoid as they stretch into trying to achieve these outcomes?
Solitaire Townsend: Oh, absolutely. And in fact, I noticed you used the language there, "the climate takeback" which of course, is the mission of Interface.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: Interface, the pioneering carpet company which of course we both know so well. And in fact, I had the great privilege to have worked with Interface on on the climate takeback as Futerra. So if you scratch most of the big sustainability ideas that are out there, you probably will find a bit of Futerra behind that. Having worked with many of the world's largest businesses from Google to Ralph Lauren all the way through to small startups and NGOs and charities around the world, I have seen some of the common pitfalls again and again. The first pitfall is overestimating what you can do in a year and underestimating what you can do in a decade.
Angela Wallace: Right.
Solitaire Townsend: So it is nearly impossible to set yourself goals on things such as climate change that are not extreme. Because the problem is so extreme, the need to change is so extreme. The necessity of setting absolutely bonkers — as we'd say in the UK — goals is needed because, you know, it's bonkers or bust at this point. If we're not setting ourselves absolutely transformative goals, then what are we playing at? A lot of people, a lot of NGOs are very rightly worried about the time horizon that people are setting 2050 goals, etc, which does seem quite you know, essentially, most of those who are setting those goals will be long retired, by the time those goals came to fruition. And setting goals for other people is never a good idea.
But 2030 is an appropriate time scale that, you know, we are literally sort of getting into — that's counting in eight-year cycles.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: And so setting yourself a 2030 goal, which is bonkers, and then setting yourself a 6- to 18 months set of really hard targets which are achievable is the way to do it.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: Of course, if you set yourself that extremely hard 2030 goal, which is a must, a necessity, nearly impossible to imagine how you're going to get there... you've got to remember that you're not getting there on your own, that everybody else has also set that bonkers goal. That every government set that bonkers goal.
That the investment, the guidance, the infrastructure changes that are going to be happening around you as an organization, or if you try to achieve that, are most likely going to be there. And if they're not there, then we've all got a problem. But you have to play your part to set that bonkers goal. Set that goal that you have no idea of achieving, knowing nobody else knows how they're going to achieve it either. But you are not alone in trying to do so. And then set yourself a sort of 6- to 18-month set of hard targets that you can achieve, literally sort of, you know, what is the personal best that you could imagine within the, shall we say, fitness range you're currently in? And so you know, we all know this from when we're working out, when we're running, when we're trying to lift, we all set a goal for our personal bests to be just slightly beyond where we think we might be able to get. So set that goal and then let the 10-year goal take care of itself. And if every year you're setting that stretch goal to just beyond where you thought you might be able to make it, knowing you're going to have to work every day and doing so. So that's number one.
Number two is entrepreneurship. Too many people approach sustainability, or the entirety of the sustainability agenda, social justice, and environmental regeneration... people set this agenda as a cost center or as a management challenge — so how much budget do we have to set aside essentially, to sort of pay for not being evil? And, you know, how do we account for those costs within what we're doing? — rather than setting this as an entrepreneurial agenda.
And that's what I would recommend trying to think about: "How are we going to use the constraints that are coming around sustainability in order to drive innovation and invention to out-compete and to create delight with those that we work with?" Because that's what the most entrepreneurial small businesses and, indeed, large businesses are doing now. It's going, "These constraints are here, and more of them are coming." That's brilliant. That's, you know, that's what has happened in every entrepreneurial market. If these are the constraints, how do we outperform within them? And a great way of doing that, and it's something which Futerra does as an actual offer, is to sit down and invent your competitor. Sit down and go, 'If I had a wonderful sort of angelic venture capitalist to back me, what is the competitor of my current business that I would set up?' A competitor who was, you know, outstandingly more sustainable, outstandingly more leveraged for the current wicked problems, who literally was going to hoover up all of the social and environmental leads, consumers, etc. Even if you spend an afternoon, a Sunday afternoon, imagining what would a sustainability, 100% sustainable version of my business be that would compete the crap out of my company? That's my my biggest piece of advice as a small business or medium-sized business or a large business, because the entrepreneurial juice that will pump for you is absolutely worth its weight.
Angela Wallace: Yes, absolutely. I love this. So we all have our marching orders to set those bonkers goals for 6 to 18 months. I love that, let's be bonkers and take a Sunday afternoon and imagine that incredible competitor, and then try to become them. I love that so much. And this idea of angel VCs, Angelic, I should say, we need some more of those too, to capitalize all these things. Side note.
Solitaire Townsend: There is a lot of capital, yes, there is a great deal of capital. And then there's a lot of sustainability and bias to capital. So we're seeing a great deal more bias towards sustainability in the capital that's sloshing around. All of us who are sustainability-minded at the moment need to make sure that that capital finds a home that is progressive and regenerative.
Angela Wallace: Yes, absolutely. Get the dollars to work for these great goals. Definitely.
Solitaire Townsend: Exactly.
Angela Wallace: So thinking on this, we're talking about Interface and naming some of these great companies and, you know, even us here on the mics today, but one of the things I really have been reflecting on recently is really the future of climate leadership. And I know you've recently done just a fantastic campaign. There's a climate hero in all of us and the everyday extraordinary I was in my feels this morning, Soli. I was definitely — the eyes were watery, look, watching those videos, what you've done there with that campaign. Tell us a little bit about what you believe the future of climate leadership looks like — not necessarily, for those we might imagine, at first, like all those in power in government, but those of us we know, in our communities, our families, in the places and spaces we love.
Solitaire Townsend: As of today, there are seven and a half billion faces of climate leadership. That's what it's going to take, that's what it's going to need. So that's what we did with the Climate Heroes, the Everyday Climate Heroes is here in the UK, we were hosting in Glasgow, in Scotland, we were hosting the big COP26 meeting. And one of the things we you know, I tend to travel around the world quite a lot. But of course, during the pandemic have been on this little island for for a few years and able to sort of really take a temperature of how the climate debate is going even just in one single nation. And weirdly, it was quite bifurcated. So on one side, you had a lot of very tall, posh men such as Prince Charles and David Attenborough and all of these sorts of things, I know gust voices for action, speaking about climate change, even the Queen has spoken on it.
On the other side, you have, of course, the Extinction Rebellion and the Insulate Britain — these, very, very forthright, strong vocal fighters, future activists, and, you know, I am one of them, and align myself with. But the vast majority of the British public wouldn't necessarily see themselves, recognize themselves, in either of those camps. And so we're thinking, "That's not okay." You know, because actually, climate action is held within the communities, is held within the diversity of the UK. And so we worked with a number of charities, notably Ashden, to identify fantastic, amazing individuals across the UK, most of whom would not consider themselves to be a leader at all. That wouldn't be part of what their self-identification, wouldn't be part of their identity. As soon as we put the everyday on the front of it, they're afraid to accept it.
And we brought them together when we got the, you know, the globally famous photographer, Rankin, who shoots everyone from queens to Kate Moss to Kardashians. And he shot them on beautiful, beautiful photographs, and then wonderfully managed to get those up on you know, well over 1,000 billboards across the UK and distributed the films, etc. And what that started to do — and we've got to keep going and keep chipping away on it — is helping people see themselves in the picture.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: There are no small roles. If you consider, you know, this to be the big story that we're in at the moment. And maybe there's a few sort of main roles for Greta and yes, for Princes, etc. But there are no small roles when it comes to sustainability. Every single one of us is a character, every single one of us has got a role to play. Every single one of us is important when it comes to this. And so diversifying or democratizing the face of climate action is something which is incredibly important for Futerra, and which we're going to be doing more on, because it just sucks when it's not like that.
Angela Wallace: Absolutely. Well, and it's hard to imagine yourself joining in when you never see yourself in the story. And so telling a new narrative that draws in people of all ages, all backgrounds, all communities, that's when you start to think, "Okay, maybe I can join in, maybe I can find my path, my contribution." And I think it's a very powerful way to position the future of climate leadership. It's in all of us. And isn't that like a remarkable thing to believe? It's hard for me not even to get emotional when I say it out loud. Because really, you know, it's like, this is what the world needs. And if we each one of us can raise our hands and say, "Ah, okay, I see myself. Let's do this." ... what a world it would be.
Solitaire Townsend: Oh, when you think about the amazing folks at the Hip Hop Caucus, when you think about some of the amazing writers that we have at the moment, when you see the intersection, quite literally, you know, I think about Leah Thomas and her wonderful new book, "Intersectional Environmentalist." When we think about how — we've got a wonderful new non-executive joining us, Baroness Loyal Young. Baroness, a member of our House of Lords. She was raised in Cash, she's a Black British woman. She's gone through absolutely the fight on racism, on feminism. She's an incredible voice for this. And she's joined Futerra. And essentially because she says, "This is one fight. It's one problem. It's one solution. You know, what we've got here is we've got a system of exploitation and extraction, this sort of system of 'take' and this mindset of 'take.' And then on the other side, you've got this mindset of 'give' and 'create' and 'repair.'" And so she was the architect of the Modern Slavery Act here in the UK, and has been a huge proponent for change, politically and socially and, in fact, in media and in culture. And to have her joining Futerra at this moment with this message of "Don't see this as a set of disparate problems... all of these sort of awful, bifurcated little points."
And of course, many of us have heard the story of the wonderful Ukrainian meteorologist, as Kiev was being bombed, who was online with the IPCC. She's one of the IPCC scientists.
Angela Wallace: Yes.
Solitaire Townsend: And when it came to her to ratify or not ratify the IPCC Working Group 2 report that came out recently, she made the direct analogy, which is, "The war in my country, Ukraine, and climate change is being caused by the same thing." And this is where we are at the moment, which is there are multiple wicked problems, all of which are actually connected to one central problem. And we have this saying though, which is we have these... we might have millions, billions of faces of the solution. But actually behind those faces is compassion, is thoughtfulness, is desire to make a difference. And it's also sort of, "This is cool, and it's fun, and it's desirable." Several books, it makes you feel good. So this is a moment in time that that we're at in this, this big coming together, of almost like this light bulb moment of going, "Ah, I think we understand where to take the fight."
Angela Wallace: Yes, absolutely. And I'm excited to see the baroness's work as you move forward on that, we'll continue to watch and listen and learn.
Solitaire Townsend: Oh, she's wonderful. Come to the Futerra website and check her out. She's a particularly warm, lovely, intelligent, jolly baroness.
Angela Wallace: That's amazing. Well, Soli, I know that we could probably speak — I mean, I imagine I could do a few days worth of podcasting with you, if we had the time, if we had the chance. But, you know, as we look to close our conversation together, I would love to hear from you. You know, I work with a lot of brands who make things, they're trying to innovate in materials and production and packaging. And, you know, as we look at the future of susti stuff, I was hoping you could close us with your best nugget of advice for those companies who are looking to intentionally create that regenerative, resilient future. If you could kind of send them out back to their daily grind, what would you leave them with?
Solitaire Townsend: I would say you already know how to do this. You already know how to do this. You've been learning this since you were a child. In fact, your parent, possibly your mother already taught you this, which is to think before you act. So I know that might sound quite general, there's loads of fantastic resources, which are growing every day. You know, the World Economic Forum is about to publish a whole set of guidance on how do you become sort of positive for nature, we've got our SBTI guides on climate change, an increasing set of guidance on social justice and on climate justice, but it all comes down to the same thing, which is to think before you act. Which sounds incredibly easy, indeed, it is a truism taught to us at mother's knee, but it's very, very, very difficult to do. To just... to take that beat and go, "Is this decision serving the solutions or serving destruction?" And that's the only question I've ever had: "Is this decision I'm just about to take serving solutions or serving destruction?" Eh, probably more destruction? Don't do it. Eh, probably more solutions? Do it. Sometimes, eh, serving destruction but I don't know how to change that decision. And we are [unclear] Always just that stop, think: solution or destruction, solution or destruction, solution or destruction, solution or destruction?
And if you don't know the answer, then you know you don't know the answer, which means either take the decision knowing that and take the consequences of it and take that in full awareness — that you don't know whether this decision is the right one or not. Or go away and find out. Because as soon as you start using that sort of "stop, think, solution or destruction" mindset, actually, everything becomes a little bit more pointy, a little bit more sharp, a little bit more clear, in terms of what you have to do.
And do it decision by decision, don't spend six months, don't spend two years trying to come together with a sort of the "Answer to Life, the Universe and Everything." We do not have — there is no universal theory of everything for sustainability. All there is, is decision after decision after decision. If you can cut it down into that. And oh, we're also overwhelmed and so exhausted, we don't want massive universal themes of anything. Anyway, just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And each time going, "Is this step that I'm taking taking me closer to a solution? Or is it taking me closer to destruction?" And just try that today, just from everything from what you choose to have for lunch, to what you choose to buy, to what work decisions you take, like just every single decision. Just take that second, "Solution? Destruction?", eh, and see what difference it makes.
Angela Wallace: Absolutely. Well, Solitaire, it's just been such a joy, such an honor. And I do want to close on a note of personal gratitude. You know, over a decade ago, I was studying my Masters of Science, Environmental Management. And I looked up and I looked out, searching for those who are a little further down the road from me, who were demonstrating courage doing the work, and I found you. And I found what you're up to. And if this podcast achieves nothing else, if this episode does nothing else than just pay it forward to one young person who's looking up and looking out, trying to find those who are acting out of courage, doing the work... If nothing else is achieved apart from one young person having that same sense of discovering those who are in it to win it, then I will be satisfied. And I just want to thank you.
Solitaire Townsend: I'm literally, I'm welling up. Thank you so, so, so, so very much because I 100% agree, and I applaud and congratulate you on on the decade that you've had since then, and on keeping that mindset of paying it forward to that young person who might be listening right now.
Angela Wallace: Awesome. Well, we're gonna step towards the solutions and be bonkers. And we're gonna do it. Thanks, Soli.
Solitaire Townsend: Thank you so very much. Thank you.
Angela Wallace: Thanks for listening to Scale Conscious. I'm Ange. This show's produced by Lead Podcasting. Special thanks to team members Kendall and Alisha. Discover more about our work with CPG startups at scaleconscious.com. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player and we'll see you here next time.
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Scale Conscious is a podcast that explores the tactics startups can take to create conscious companies and build a regenerative future for all. Join host Ange Wallace as she explores building purpose-driven businesses and scaling consciously with some of today’s bravest and most impactful leaders.